Tuesday, February 7, 2012

Thanks to Adam and Eve for ... Sinning?

PhotobucketPerhaps you have visited one of the many official Mormon church websites. As I was reading over the Mormon.org website, I came upon the following article entitled, "Adam and Eve Gave Us the Gift of Choice" which can be found here. I will quote the article in its entirety, then put it to the test:

The article from www.mormon.org
"Adam and Eve Gave Us the Gift of Choice
You may know the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, but did you know it was they who paved the way for the rest of us to come to earth, make choices, and become like our Heavenly Father?


As God’s first children on earth, Adam and Eve were living in their garden paradise. They didn’t feel any sorrow or pain, which might seem nice, except that without it, they also couldn’t feel joy. They didn’t remember their pre-earth life. If they hadn’t eaten the forbidden fruit, they would have lived like that forever and never had children. Mankind never would have been born or the world populated.



As we know, Adam and Eve succumbed to Satan’s temptations to eat the fruit and disobeyed God who had commanded them not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As a consequence, they were separated from God’s presence physically and spiritually—an event we refer to as the Fall. They became mortal—just as we are—subject to sin, disease, all types of suffering, and ultimately death. But it wasn’t all bad because they could now feel great joy. “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.” (2 Nephi 2:25) But as they were obedient to the Gospel of Jesus Christ Adam and Eve were able to receive God’s inspiration, revelation, and even visits from heavenly messengers.


Once out of the garden, they were able to progress and learn to become more like our Heavenly Father. In addition, they could have children, which meant the rest of God’s spirit children (all of us) could come to Earth, experience physical bodies, and be proven by our daily choices. Just like Adam and Eve, there are consequences to all our choices, good or bad. Lasting happiness and progression come from choosing to do what God wants us to do. The key word is “choosing.” Generally God does not step in and prevent us from making the poor choices Satan tempts us to make. He will, however, offer his love, divine guidance, and warnings when we open our heart to Him."

When comparing any Mormon doctrine, we must go directly to the source of truth, which is the Bible alone. If we do not have a final authority, we will not be able to show error as error. So let us compare what the Bible teaches, and see if it is in harmony with what the Mormon teaching says.


First, the article starts off with, "You may know the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, but did you know it was they who paved the way for the rest of us to come to earth, make choices, and become like our Heavenly Father?"

No where in the Bible do we see anything that even comes close to alluding to the fact that Adam and Eve "paved the way" for anyone to come to earth, and makes choices, or become like God. It simply is not there. In fact, throughout the Bible, we never once see the fall of man, and our original sin, painted in a good light. It is never something that anyone is thankful for, it is never a blessing, and it is never credited to them as sinning for the "benefit of humanity" in order to make the human race possible. I cannot be more clear or direct, this teaching just is not there.

The article continues, "As God’s first children on earth, Adam and Eve were living in their garden paradise. They didn’t feel any sorrow or pain, which might seem nice, except that without it, they also couldn’t feel joy." 


Is this really true? Is it logical to conclude that since Adam and Eve were in paradise and could not feel any sorrow or pain, they therefor were unable to feel joy? Let us look at what the Bible says:

1 - Adam was created in a paradise. Adam was the first human being, and was the first human being to see the finished creation of a totally perfect world, undiluted by the fall, without sin, and in the presence of God.

2 - God placed Adam in the garden of Eden to cultivate and take care of this paradise (Gen. 2:8). This garden was full of every tree that were pleasing to the sight, that was good for food, along with the tree of life as well (Gen. 2:9).

3 - There were rivers which flowed right out of the garden, giving a fresh water source, along with gold, and other precious stones (Gen. 2:10-14).

4 - God not only places the man, but gives him permission to eat of absolutely any tree in the garden, with the one exception of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and God is even good enough to tell Adam that if he were to eat of that tree, he will die! (Gen. 2:15-17)

5 - The man was given the duty of naming all of the animals, and the Bible tells us that God brought the animals to the man to name. Adam had the joy of seeing every animal, naming it, and without fear of being ripped to shreds or torn up by the dinosaurs, the lions, or the bears! (Gen. 2:18-19)

6 - God knew that it was not good for the man to be alone, He knew that none of the animals were a suitable helper, and so knowing this, God shows His grace and creates woman out of man, giving Adam a WIFE! Adam seems to sound happy when he says, "The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” (Gen. 2:23)
Here we see the institution of marriage started! How is this not joyous?

It seems to be an understatement to say that the notion of Adam and Eve not having sorrow or pain stopped them from having the ability to feel happiness and joy is unbiblical. To suggest this is simply to ignore several verses in the Bible in which we have words from the first man, and from God Himself.

Next, the article says, "They didn’t remember their pre-earth life. If they hadn’t eaten the forbidden fruit, they would have lived like that forever and never had children. Mankind never would have been born or the world populated."


Is this true? Remember, there is nothing in the Bible to suggest a "pre-mortal" existence of man. Is it true that had Adam and Eve not sinned, they would not be allowed to have children? Let's go to the Bible and let it answer this question.

We read in the very first chapter of Genesis, the following:
Genesis 1: 26-31

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


So here we have the Bible stating as clear as day that on the 6th day that Adam and Eve were BLESSED by God, and told to multiply, which would mean to have children, and not only that, to rule the earth! So the Bible completely refutes this idea that the only way Adam and Eve would be able to have children is to willfully, purposefully, and deliberately disobey God, and sin against our perfect and Holy God.

The article continues, "As we know, Adam and Eve succumbed to Satan’s temptations to eat the fruit and disobeyed God who had commanded them not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As a consequence, they were separated from God’s presence physically and spiritually—an event we refer to as the Fall. They became mortal—just as we are—subject to sin, disease, all types of suffering, and ultimately death. But it wasn’t all bad because they could now feel great joy."


You may have done as I did after reading this and shake your head. Adam and Eve, by sinning according to Mormon teaching, now were separated from God's presence ... do not gloss over this, they were separated from God's presence both physically, and spiritually, become mortal, subjected to disease, all sorts of suffering, and death ... but hey, it's not all bad, they now could feel "great joy"? How on earth could the separation from God both physically and spiritually, being subjected to every disease, suffering and death give them joy, when being in the very home God created for them, walking in the presence of God the Father, being given the earth to rule over, and being in a world without sin could not give them joy? Does anyone see any sort of a problem here?

Not to mention, if it was a sin for them to fall, yet also a blessing, how on earth can God be viewed as just? He would punish Adam and Eve for a sin that would result in the need of a perfect sacrifice, Jesus, a sin that God ultimately wanted them to commit? I am not sure how many more ways you can go wrong with this theology. Again, NONE of this is in the Bible to begin with! But in order to make it fit, we have this sloppy, confusing, hypocritical order of things we must believe in, just to make it possible.

Then the article states, "“Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.” (2 Nephi 2:25) But as they were obedient to the Gospel of Jesus Christ Adam and Eve were able to receive God’s inspiration, revelation, and even visits from heavenly messengers."


Adam was obedient to the Gospel of Jesus by ... sinning? The same sin that caused death to spread to all men? Romans 5:12 and 5:15 speak to the fact that through one man, sin entered the world, and sin brought death! We see the results of this sin immediately in the fact that in Genesis 3, the world is cursed, man is driven from the Garden, and we see the first death in which Adam and Eve are clothed in animal skins, as we know the Bible says in Romans 6:23, that the wages of sin is death! And in order to make a perfect sacrifice, it took the perfect Son of God to die on the cross. So to say that Adam was obedient to the Gospel of Jesus by sinning is as disgusting as it is blasphemous.

Lastly, the article states, "Once out of the garden, they were able to progress and learn to become more like our Heavenly Father. In addition, they could have children, which meant the rest of God’s spirit children (all of us) could come to Earth, experience physical bodies, and be proven by our daily choices. Just like Adam and Eve, there are consequences to all our choices, good or bad. Lasting happiness and progression come from choosing to do what God wants us to do. The key word is “choosing.” Generally God does not step in and prevent us from making the poor choices Satan tempts us to make. He will, however, offer his love, divine guidance, and warnings when we open our heart to Him."



Again, we have no Biblical basis for believing that after the fall, we could now become like God (which is an entirely other problem since we are told many many times throughout the entirety of scripture that there is but One God, and no other, and that man can never become a god), or now progress, or only now have children, or release some sort of "spirit baby" floating in the heavens. The article has no problem promoting along with this unbiblical heretical doctrine, the importance of "choosing the right" (CTR rings which most mormons will wear), and that God wants us to "choose" good.

1st Corinthians 2:14 says, "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." We are not able to choose enough good works to lead us to heaven. We do not deserve heaven, but hell. It is the grace of God that He sent Jesus to die so that we might be made alive, and pass from death to life! And while yes James tells us faith without works is dead, He does not say works lead unto salvation. Our salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, the works are a side effect of sorts of the new life we live. The works we do are out of gratefulness and thankfulness, not out of our working our way to heaven.

Romans 4:4 states, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation." It is not through our works, but through faith in Christ, and that faith produces works, but these works do not save us.

This post is to show the errors contained within the emotional draw and appeal from the Mormon church. Friends, if you are a Mormon reading this, please understand that placing your faith in the wrong God, as sincere as you may be, is still wrong. Someone once said, if 50 million people say something foolish, they have still spoken foolishly. This is to say that just because a large group of people believe something, the number of people does not all of a sudden make the thing true. God is clear, unless you believe in Him, and Him alone, the true God revealed in the Bible, you will die in your sins, and will be on your way to an eternal hell.

I pray you will place your trust in Him, research these issues, and feel free to comment on this blog post and ask any questions.

In Him,

Jamie

17 comments:

If you want to see some of more of the controversial aspects of the Fall of Adam and Eve, from a Mormon point of view, see this video, which refers to the Fall as an "unfortunate necessity".

13 Ex Materia - Entering Mortality

http://youtu.be/dHMuWB2xrvo

I just subjected myself to this. Part of being able to reason and dialog with Mormons is to understand their position. This gentlemen left me a note on my blog asking me to watch his video, which I am posting. The basic working principle is God cannot create matter, so He was forced to create through chaos, and use matter which was imperfect, which is why we see souls with imperfections, some worse than the other. Not only this, Adam and Eve's sin has zero bearing on anyone else.

So, besides all of this ... what is wrong with this position he takes of Ex Materia as Mormon creation?

1 - 100% unsubstantiated Biblically (This is of course the biggest issue)
2 - It is not just unbiblical, it is contradictory to the Bible
3 - It places all of the interest of God on the benefit and wellbeing of man, and completely forgoes the sovereignty of God, and all things being done for His glory
4 - You assume your position as fact, without giving a foundation

Where can I find verses in the Bible that tell me God was forced to use already created matter, was forced to use what he had?
Why do you completely ignore verses of imputed sin from Adam? I.E. Romans 5:12 and 5:15
You assume Adam and Eve could not procreate without the fall even though the Bible never says this.
Sorry, but this is largely an argument from silence, and worse, in complete contradiction to the Bible.

Actually, the first thesis of the video series is that free will cannot exist in Ex Nihilo theology. That is explained in video 1 and 1b.

The reasons for why Ex Nihilo creation are not Biblically sound are found in videos 2, 5, 6, and 7.

The reason why Ex Nihilo is not philosophically sound is found in videos 8 and 10.

I don't really tackle the idea of whether or not God can or can't created Ex Nihilo. I don't say that God was "forced" to create out of existing matter; just that there is no good reason for God to create Ex Nihilo. It simply is not necessary or useful to do so, as it will result in an extension of God's own mind and imagination instead of separate and free beings.

JamiePellew wrote: "Why do you completely ignore verses of imputed sin from Adam? I.E. Romans 5:12 and 5:15 You assume Adam and Eve could not procreate without the fall even though the Bible never says this."

I don't ignore those verses at all. I answered these questions in the comment section of video 13

Seven7up, you said: "Actually, the first thesis of the video series is that free will cannot exist in Ex Nihilo theology. That is explained in video 1 and 1b."

If there is further argumentation for your theory that is fine, but remember you posted 1 video in response to this blog post. Now in order for me to understand your position I have 10 videos to watch? You need to do as all others are, write out your argument on here.

Next you said, "I don't really tackle the idea of whether or not God can or can't created Ex Nihilo. I don't say that God was "forced" to create out of existing matter; just that there is no good reason for God to create Ex Nihilo."

Actually, because you have made your case against creation Ex Nihilo, and even said at about the 4 minute 47 second mark that NO being with free will can be created out of nothing, and you say just prior to this that God is doing the best he can with what he has to work with. Since that is your stance, in your view, God is FORCED to create via chaos, which is your theory, which means God is FORCED to work with what is available, since you have stated Ex Nihilo could not be the way God created. So my point stands.

Next you said, " It simply is not necessary or useful to do so, as it will result in an extension of God's own mind and imagination instead of separate and free beings."

I had no idea you had the knowledge of what was either useful or "necessary" for the God of creation. Quite knowledge, considering not even the Bible says this.

First, I will point out what should be obvious, it is your OPINION that creation ex nihilo COULD result in what you describe. And since your lacking even substantiating any of your argument with even a single Bible verse, you need to present your argument as such.

The fact that the Bible teaches clearly creation ex nihilo, and that even though God is sovereign over all things, man is a free being, in that we are not robots, is shown throughout scripture. The more you attempt to bring your "knowledge" of what Biblical Christianity teaches, the more it shows you don't understand it at all. Your presenting some sort of fatalism, which is not what the Bible teaches. So I am willing to hear your Biblical support for this section, but it's absence speaks loudly.

You then wrote, ""Why do you completely ignore verses of imputed sin from Adam? I.E. Romans 5:12 and 5:15 You assume Adam and Eve could not procreate without the fall even though the Bible never says this."

I don't ignore those verses at all. I answered these questions in the comment section of video 13"

Well without being informed of this, I would not know. Perhaps since you deal with this so clearly, as this is a blog, you could write out your position.

I am still looking for Biblical support of any of this. You have pointed me to 13 videos, but not 1 scripture.


Also, because as of yet I have not heard you state where you are coming from, but it seems to coincide perfectly with Mormonism, are you arguing from the Mormon position.

Answering Mormons wrote: The fact that the Bible teaches clearly creation ex nihilo,

No; it really doesn't. That is an assumption.

The text could just as easily apply to the idea of God creating from "relative nothing" or even from something that is "invisible", but not from nothing.

Answering Mormons wrote: ... and that even though God is sovereign over all things, man is a free being, in that we are not robots, is shown throughout scripture.

I don't argue that we are robots. I argue that IF every aspect of our being, every characteristic, every detail, was created from "nothing" (actually it would be creation from God's own mind and God's own creative thoughts), THEN we are merely an extension of God's own imagination, because the result would be exactly what God created us to be; nothing more, nothing less.

Seven7Up - I decided to look in depth at some of your videos, starting with video 1. My first blog post of it is up and can be found at the link below. Feel free to read it, and I hope you will.

http://answeringmormons.blogspot.com/2012/12/a-response-to-critique-of-creation-ex.html

Seven7up, surprising ... still no scriptural support for anything your saying. None. Your not giving it.

Aside from the issues that arise with the position you have taken of matter being eternal that are pointed out from people like William Lane Craig, Greg Koukl, James White, etc., it still has no scriptural support.

The words used for the beginning do not leave open the possibility of an eternal matter being used, but that from the very first, the chief, the very first principle thing.

So again, if you ignore the Bible, in it's context, and choose not to look at the meaning of words ... I guess you can mash it to make it fit ... but why not just believe what the Bible actually says?

And you also have yet to answer if you are affirming the Mormon position.

ANSWERINGMORMONS: at about the 4 minute 47 second mark that NO being with free will can be created out of nothing, and you say just prior to this that God is doing the best he can with what he has to work with. Since that is your stance, in your view, God is FORCED to create via chaos, which is your theory, which means God is FORCED to work with what is available, since you have stated Ex Nihilo could not be the way God created. So my point stands."

You are still wrong. My point is that IF God creates Ex Nihilo, then the created creature has no free will. The fact that God does not Create Ex Nihilo indicates that God wants to have true interpersonal relationships, as opposed to extensions of God's own imagination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxOiYvKDack

This particular video is strictly a logic analysis. The scriptures are addressed one by one in the videos that follow.

ANSWERINGMORMONS: And you also have yet to answer if you are affirming the Mormon position.

Mormon position on what, exactly?

ANSWERINGMORMONS: So again, if you ignore the Bible, in it's context, and choose not to look at the meaning of words I guess you can mash it to make it fit ... but why not just believe what the Bible actually says?

Really? Show me the verse in the Bible that says "Ex Nihilo". Who is reading into the text something that is not there?

ANSWERINGMORMONS: The words used for the beginning do not leave open the possibility of an eternal matter being used...

They do. In fact it is implied that "something" (not necessarily matter) was used. I go into the details in the video series. Try video number 5, where I address the specific Hebrew word for "In the beginning" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqLXfWjw-lQ

The next video deals with the Hebrew word "to create"

ANSWERINGMROMONS: I decided to look in depth at some of your videos, starting with video 1. My first blog post of it is up and can be found at the link below. Feel free to read it, and I hope you will.

It appears that you decided to answer some general rhetorical questions that I asked in the video; which were merely a side note.

-S

Sevenup said: "Show me the verse in the Bible that says "Ex Nihilo". Who is reading into the text something that is not there?"

The following is an answer from one of many who have written on it:

Reference Creation ex nihilo Statement
Genesis 1:1 Implies a singular beginning and that God created everything in its totality
Proverbs 3:19 By His wisdom God created the heavens and the earth
Psalm 90:2 Only God is eternal; the created order had a distinct beginning
John 1:3 Jesus Christ, who shares the divine nature, identified as taking part in the work of creation
Romans 4:17 God calls things into existence
Colossians 1:16 God created all things visible and invisible
Acts 4:24 God is the absolute Creator of everything
Acts 17:28 Creation is dependent on God for its very existence
2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2 God existed before time, implying that He created time
Hebrews 11:3 An explicit statement of Creation ex nihilo
Revelation 4:11 Describes what creation's (humanity's) response to the Creator should be

The link is here: http://www.reasons.org/articles/creation-ex-nihilo

So it's not just a verse that says, "creation ex nihilo", but a reading of the Bible and how we come to doctrinal conclusion.

You said: "They do. In fact it is implied that "something" (not necessarily matter) was used."

Again, they don't, see above.

You then said, "It appears that you decided to answer some general rhetorical questions that I asked in the video; which were merely a side note. You stayed away from the rest of it. If you would like the issue of Ex Nihilo and Free will laid out straight, see also the supplement video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxOiYvKDack"

Actually, if all you read was my answer to the questions you chose not to answer in video one, then you didn't read the entire post, and should go back and read it.

Now I appreciate that you have found your videos of value, but as stated I would look at some of them. It's a drop in the bucket sadly of heresies. I am not going to do a blog to refute a 9 volume series. I will simply address the heresies that are the most prevalent, as in your misunderstanding what free will is, how it relates to the problem of evil, the eternality of God, etc. There are a few main arguments that I will use which will show your position wrong from the very foundation. Which in actuality, my post has done.

Sevenup, you said, "You are still wrong. My point is that IF God creates Ex Nihilo, then the created creature has no free will. The fact that God does not Create Ex Nihilo indicates that God wants to have true interpersonal relationships, as opposed to extensions of God's own imagination."

Your repeating the same things. Again, where is your scriptural support, where are your facts, what proof are you bringing to the argument? Error repeated is not somehow now a truth, it is still error. What facts do you bring against this Biblical doctrine?

You said, "ANSWERINGMORMONS: And you also have yet to answer if you are affirming the Mormon position.

Mormon position on what, exactly?"

This is now the third time I am asking this question, and I have a hard time believing you have no idea what I am asking. Do you affirm the doctrines of Mormon theology as your position you stand on? Do you believe Joseph Smith to be a true prophet, do you believe the Mormon Church is true ... I am at a loss for how many other ways to ask the same question.

You said the words do leave the possibility of your position of God being forced to use pre existing matter, and I say again, ex nihilo is taught throughout scripture, start by reading what I posted above, which I will post again:

Reference Creation ex nihilo Statement
Genesis 1:1 Implies a singular beginning and that God created everything in its totality
Proverbs 3:19 By His wisdom God created the heavens and the earth
Psalm 90:2 Only God is eternal; the created order had a distinct beginning
John 1:3 Jesus Christ, who shares the divine nature, identified as taking part in the work of creation
Romans 4:17 God calls things into existence
Colossians 1:16 God created all things visible and invisible
Acts 4:24 God is the absolute Creator of everything
Acts 17:28 Creation is dependent on God for its very existence
2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2 God existed before time, implying that He created time
Hebrews 11:3 An explicit statement of Creation ex nihilo
Revelation 4:11 Describes what creation's (humanity's) response to the Creator should be

The link is here: http://www.reasons.org/articles/creation-ex-nihilo


you said, "ANSWERINGMROMONS: I decided to look in depth at some of your videos, starting with video 1. My first blog post of it is up and can be found at the link below. Feel free to read it, and I hope you will.

It appears that you decided to answer some general rhetorical questions that I asked in the video; which were merely a side note. "

Actually, if all you read was my answer to the questions you chose not to answer in video one, then you didn't read the entire post, and should go back and read it.

Now I do not plan to wait for every second for a new video that teaches heresies. I'll respond to the main issues, as I did in my first post where I demonstrate that the very foundation of your first video is flawed.

The fact that you had to quote YOUR INTERPRETATION of the verses, instead of the Biblical text itself, demonstrates the point that Ex Nihilo is an assumption and not explicitly taught by the text.


AnsweringMormons: Genesis 1:1 Implies a singular beginning and that God created everything in its totality

No it doesn't. THE SAME WORD CONSTRUCTION IS USED ELSEWHERE IN THE BIBLE. I cover the details on that extensively.

AnsweringMormons: Proverbs 3:19 By His wisdom God created the heavens and the earth

AGREED

AnsweringMormons: Psalm 90:2 Only God is eternal; the created order had a distinct beginning

This verse does not claim what you just wrote. Try again.

AnsweringMormons: John 1:3 Jesus Christ, who shares the divine nature, identified as taking part in the work of creation

AGREED.

AnsweringMormons: Romans 4:17 God calls things into existence

The context refers to "quickening the dead". Do you believe that our spirit ceases to exist after we die and until the resurrection? No, they are "present with the Lord" Also, the context refers to the nation being "created" from the seed of Abraham (not from nothing - See Isa 43:11,15).

Colossians 1:16

Again you ASSUME that creation is creation from nothing. Your preset notion is implied into the text, not described by the text. Case in point would be your supposed verse where there is an "explicit" reference to Ex Nihilo, "we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that visible things were made of invisible things." (Heb 11:3)

Well, "invisible things" are not the same thing as "nothing". Invisible things ARE THINGS. And what are invisible things made from? And so forth.

Acts 4:24 makes no Ex Nihil claim. None of them do.

I'm not going to argue specifically from the Bible. Let's just say it is utterly inconsistent generally that a loving, intelligent God would orchestrate Man's Fall to "pave" anything. It resulted in untold misery for the human race. You want to breed resentment against God, or outright atheism, you go right ahead and push that "Thanks for the Fall" thinking. I'll continue to believe Adam and Eve either literally or metaphorically made the wrong personal choices. Choices that could and should have been avoided.

Just curious about what you believe about the fall and God's plan. Did He want Adam and Eve to stay in the garden, have children and not take the fruit and fall? And when they did, He had to come up with a plan B (the savior) to fix it?

Unknown asked, "Just curious about what you believe about the fall and God's plan. Did He want Adam and Eve to stay in the garden, have children and not take the fruit and fall? And when they did, He had to come up with a plan B (the savior) to fix it?"

The Bible tells us what God created, what His command was. For Adam and Eve, they were commanded to live in the garden, to subdue it, ad to be fruitful and multiply. They were commanded not to eat of the tree.

Was it unknown that Adam and Eve would fall? Absolutely not. Rev. 13:8 refers to Christ as the lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world. Right in Genesis we are given a glimpse that God would send a savior who would deliver a fatal blow to the serpent.

So nothing is outside of the knowledge of God, or beyond His will.